DTS LIMITED: WHERE DID ALL THE MONEY GO?

  A UK distributor has informed me that one of the UK's largest Amway Motivation Organisations was declared insolvent in March 1998. DTS was the AMO I was involved with, and I just can't understand how such a venture can go bust leaving no assets.

Can any existing or former distributors answer the following questions?

• Who were the directors? (See footnote 1)


• Did the directors file accounts in accordance with the statutory requirements of the various Companies Acts? (See footnote 2)
• Were assets transferred to individuals or other (non-limited) companies immediately prior to DTS Limited's liquidation.
• Exactly what is the status of DTS now? I understand it they continued to operate as some form of non-limited business entity after the insolvency. (See footnote 3).

1. There were two directors; Dave McCune and Pat McCune, each of whom owned a £1 share.
2. DTS Limited had not filed accounts with Companies House. They commenced trading as DTS Limited in January 1996, and following a writ and a winding up petition issued by Creditors in December 1996 was placed under liquidation in February 1997. The estimated deficiency was over £400,000.
3. Were seminars organised and books and tapes sold by DTS after February 1997? Can anyone send me details?

Dear Ron

Having read the comments on your website, it appears there is a divided opinion on Amway. Most of the negative comments revolve around the sale of the 'system' and not Amway products...interesting that those negatives are directed at Amway and not the providers of the said 'systems'. We are 85% happy with Amway products, they are good quality and do what they say they should do. There are some which we don't like, however if I still shopped at the supermarket I would find the same thing. No one product, nor one company is perfect.

Having said this, I must balance our argument with our experience first hand of the DTS network 'system'. This has, in one respect, given us a very positive outlook on life, which we didn't have prior to using the system. We have found out A LOT of things about DTS by digging, as we hate unanswered questions. We were told we had to have the system or we would not get help as there would be no point, we wouldn't get anywhere without it.

We are interested that there is a margin of 4% for the Direct's on tapes, as our Directs ADDED a further 5% packaging charge and postage onto our tools, which incidentally worked out at 300% of our 'profit' from the business, which according to the Rules of Conduct is illegal and according to the findings of the authorities in the USA is a Pyramid.

Amway has held us back since September 1997, from demanding our money back for 'tools' since they refused Mr. McCune renewal of his Diamond business (Mrs. McCune has been renewed under the IDA system of Bert Gullick) this has resulted in the 180 day rule being no longer relevant and because of Amway's delaying tactics, we are now at the mercy of Mrs. McCune's good nature and are awaiting a long overdue reply to our invoice from her. The DTS Limited company of Mr. McCune is now insolvent and the solicitors involved basically say, it's a snowball in hell's chance of getting any money back. Yes, you covered your tracks well David!

We are demanding our money back even though it is now past the 180 day rule, as Amway has deliberately delayed all the DTS distributors, some of which have had bonfires in their gardens to ceremoniously burn the taste of DTS away. We are doing this as we feel, as the findings in USA did, that Amway has an obligation to look after the people who give them 120% backing.

Unfortunately, as the USA findings, we have had the same reply to all our dozens of phone calls and letters, namely...'we're really sorry but the system is not covered by Amway's buy back rules, you were not under any obligation etc... you should have told us you were being pushed to buy too many tools then we would have acted. Oh yeh?! As far as we can see Amway whitewashed itself in the USA and Canada by verbally slapping a few wrists and ASKING the guilty people to HELP them do what is right. Sanctimonious claptrap!

In our latest phone conversation with Sue Cox, Amway's UK legal beagle, we quoted the rules i.e. the one about thou shalt not sell more tools to a distributor than is relevant to the size of their income, which is blatantly disregarded by all in DTS, Sue responded by saying new Rules of Conduct were now operating and our argument was not relevant. When pressed as to why we and all the distributors we have spoken to, do not have a copy of these rules, she said they went to NEW distributors. So if you're already in the business, beware, the rules will change and you will not be informed. Not that they abide by them in any case!!

 I ask an open question to any DTI people who may read this, will you investigate this please?

 By our experience with DTS, we can say, yes the tools were pressed upon us all, yes we spent many thousands of pounds. No we didn't make much money, we found like yourself Ron, that you would get a sale for products, then the customer would refuse point blank to buy again. The reason was always the same COST. I believe the products are very good but my oh my they are overpriced if Amway can boast that it has TWO YEARS operating costs in the bank... on a $7 BILLION turnover, that's a helluva bank balance!

Did we get a benefit from them? Depends on the point of view, is our glass half full or half empty? We can only say that we would probably not be together today if not for the positive thinkers we have met in the business (not including our upline) We would not have the attitude we have today without DTS, we could not have weathered the 'challenges' we've had with our other business - and the DTS fiasco, without the system, so in monetary terms, NO we have not had value, in personal development term YES definitely we had our money's worth.

We still want the tools refunded on our list Mrs. McCune!!

One example of overselling 'pyramid' style was when we were forced to take £500 worth of tapes which we stated clearly we didn't want. Mr. McCune said "I'll buy them back from you later if you don't really want them" OK Dave, put your money where your mouth is, you know our address, send the cheque. Despite all the things we found out about Mr McCune and his DTS Ltd, we still have a great regard for the perisher, why? well he's a great teacher, even though he doesn't practice what he preaches, he gave us motivation in life in general, he inspired us when we were down. No one is all bad. So David, we'd still be happy to share time with you, just one thing, don't forget the cheque first!

Come on Amway, you can reduce the prices, it's always better all round to have lots of happy customers and continuing distributorships, than to have customers who buy once and disillusioned distributors who quit. No we don't believe you should be labeled a quitter, rather a disillusioned distributor. Better for your reputation, we challenge you to make it right.
 
SECOND E-MAIL: 1st October 1998

Hi Ron

Thanks for the reply. It proves my email reached you which is a bonus as I'm new to the internet and I'm never quite sure if I've done everything right!

Yes DTS Limited is insolvent it was closed down March 1998, then it became DTS. The solicitors acting for the liquidators are Kallis & Co., Mountview Court, 1148 High Road, Whetstone, London N20 0RA. but they say as there is no money there's nothing they can do. Amway's official word is, "as this company is now insolvent your request for a refund on tools is outside the 180 day refund policy as detailed within the Amway Rules of Conduct/Code of Ethics, we suggest you put your claim to the solicitors.

I love the way they quote the rules, then when you quote them back, they wash their hands of responsibility. We pointed out to them that the very sale of said tools contravened the 'Pyramid Selling Act of 1973' and therefore Amway should be responsible in seeing that its reputation was not damaged by ensuring the McCunes refunded their distributors.

As they found in the USA the only way that will happen is if the DTI and DSA get upset, so let's upset them!

The IDA system operates from IDA UK Limited (there's that Ltd word again - fills me with dread) Unit 5, 73 Nuffield Road, Nuffield Industrial Estate, Poole, Dorset BH17 0RR.

My claim from DTS is for over £1,000, not including about the same from DTS Limited which is now lost. You can certainly post my message on your page if you like. In defence of Stuart & Carole Melville, who are Diamonds from the McCune network, they disassociated themselves with the McCunes and are as disgusted with them as the rest of their distributors. They are genuine lovely people. They have seminars and offer the system but don't say you have to have it in order to get help. What a refreshing change to hear that. I feel the only way we can eradicate the misselling of the system is to inform the DTI and DSA individually of our stories, which should start to open their eyes. I wonder how much, if any, influence DeVos and Van Andel have with them?

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