Did Jesus have a beard?
It’s around this time of year, when the family gather around the turkey and the gaudy decorations that important questions bubble to the surface as you reflect on the year that passed. The question that lodged itself in my conscious is: Did Jesus have a beard?
That’s right. You can keep your cures for cancer, solutions to world poverty and sure fire gambling strategies. I want to know if the big man wore a hairy face. Obviously there was no Remington or Gillette and certainly no super foaming gels, but that doesn’t tell me if people shaved back then.
Is it important to know what colour he was? Well, no, not really. He could have sported a Chuck Norris or equally a Bob Marley. One thing’s for sure, he wouldn’t have sported a silly city banker fluff stripe on his chin.
So then, where to start? I’ll Ask Jeeves, he’s always full of crap. Bingo, the first result tells us that in the Old Testament it is written:
Old Testament (Isaiah 50:6) says:
I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.
Well, there we go, at some people he actually offered up his beard to be plucked out. Man alive, that must have hurt. Still, the man was put here to be tested. Next up the Guardian asks the question “Is this the real face of Jesus Christ?”
They then show me a picture of a man who is neither Bob Marley OR Chuck Norris leaving me feeling rather silly. For the extremely gullable they have to add the quote “It’s not the face of Jesus, but how he is likely to have looked given the scientific information we’ve got,” said Lorraine Heggessey, controller of BBC1. “That’s what people from that area of the world looked like at that time.”
Before they can patronise me any further I’ll move on to the Christian Forums where they’ve conducted a poll on my behalf. Okay it’s not a did he/didn’t he question, rather it covers the style of beard. The results are in and if I open this shiney envelope carefully I can reveal that:
| None…. ’cause Jesus shaves… | 14 | 2.82% |
| Just a goatee… cool 90’s style | 15 | 3.02% |
| Full beard… ZZ Top/natural look… | 200 | 40.32% |
| Don’t know/care/not important to my life… | 240 | 48.39% |
| Blasphemy! How dare you discuss our Saviour’s facial hair! | 27 | 5.44% |
This shows that more people cared enough to express the fact they don’t care than those who cared enough to answer that they did. Those where interested AND thought he had a full beard won out. That’s 3-nil to the “He does have a beard” camp and a good hint on the style.
Next up I visited the very serious jehovahs-witness.com board where there’s a very serious explanation and a very serious discussion about beards in the thread “Damn! Jesus had a BEARD! What do we do now?“. Apart from one depiction of him on a Toby Jug, all evidence points very much to a facial haired Lord.
Finally I’ll leave you with the words and pictures of BeliefNet who say that he did and he didn’t have a beard. They explain this with a tour of 10 portraits that depict Jesus Christ that have been created throughout the years.
Where’s the polaroid when you need it?
December 14th, 2005 at 8:46 am
2 words: Flavor Saviour (flavor saver)
December 14th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Jesus wasn’t real so he can’t have had a beard.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:17 pm
Are Jesus and Kenny Logins Related?
December 15th, 2005 at 12:11 am
No I didn’t. And yes, I am as real as Bush is a genious… wait..
December 15th, 2005 at 12:27 am
first off, yes he is real. They can prove that scientifically with records taken by the roman empire at the time. Secondly he did have a beard, again we can prove it…sort of. There is a religious artifact known as the shroud of Turin. Basically its a really old cloth, but it is how we know what Jesus looked like cause when he was crucified he was all bloody, muddy and sweaty as you might imagine. I woman cleaned his face with this cloth and the dirt and blood and eveything soaked into it, leaving a “picture” of his face. So there you go, bearded Jesus, in the Jewish Rabbi Style. And yes, he was Jewish, not Christian as we seem to forget. I mean really, its nice to believe in yourself but…
December 15th, 2005 at 1:08 am
That cloth was made by Leonardo Da Vinci, and it was fake. Old news that Jesus doesn’t exist.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:10 am
uhh… forgive me if I’m missing something here but in response to that last reply:
How are the roman empire’s records “scientific,” and even if they contain the name Jesus, how do we know that the records in fact referred to Jesus Christ? Hey, while we’re at it they probably had a “John” in those records… there’s some scientific evidence that you’re reincarnated, eh?
And as for the Shroud of Turin, its significance is solely that of a relic, and doesn’t help us define his facial features by any means… I wipe sweat from my face with a towel after I work out, does that mean you could take the towel from the bin and figure out what I look like? I’d be a bit skeptical of that…
And although you’re right to say he was Jewish, you’re wrong to say he wasn’t Christian. Christian in the traditional sense implies a following of Christ, but in a deeper sense implies the following of the ideals set forward by Christ himself, so wouldn’t Jesus really be the ultimate Christian?
My opinion: he did have a beard, it was probably (as John said) in the Jewish Rabbi all natural style, and on top of that…. who cares?
December 15th, 2005 at 1:44 am
omg. hilarious. probably one of the most awesome researched stuff ever about jesus. it’s even amusing. keep it up.
gotta split. teacher’s gonna catch me on here
(you know it .. i’m in computers class.)
-NIKKI
December 15th, 2005 at 1:59 am
the turin shroud wasnt made by leonardo da vinci!! - come on you don’t actually believe that do you??!!
the turin shroud was proven to be a fake, well it wasn’t JC
they carbon dated it and its only 600 years old.
though if it’s his “death cloth” then he didn’t die on the cross and actually lived until he was 1400 years old. which is probably an easy trick for the son of an all powerful god.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:51 am
Man, Some people have to much time on their hands very funny tho LMAO large.
numpt owt
December 15th, 2005 at 4:40 am
Hey, let us conclude the matter. The fact is no man can tell me are draft what they think is Jesus and show me and i believe that.NEVER!!!!! and whether Jesus had a beard are not, dont really matters his beard cannot save us. his beard cannot give an account for the life we live Rite? good so let observe more of his conduct and emulate them that we can pattern our lives as his.
December 15th, 2005 at 4:45 am
no one cureently on earth ever see Jesus in their mortal status not even moses could who could hardly contain the presence of Jesus when he me on the Mount of Olive’s so how much anyone now can tell me that. plzzzzz forget that. see Jesus Where? it must in there mind and every must have seen Jesus in their mind.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:39 am
yah and they carbon dated a live snail to be millions of years old whats the difference? History shows Jesus was real so stop whinning and trying to say he wasnt, yes I am a christian and believe that Jesus is God but even if I wasnt I would have the sense to know that he was a real man, heck even if I wasnt a christian I wouldnt believe in evolution, its the most unstable theory and in order for it to be real everything would have stayed the same wheras the law of thermal dynamics states that everything decays, we have seen that in many things for example, the speed of light is very very very very very slowly, getting slower, and in order for evolution to be real everything would have had to stay the same, and evolution talks about an ice age and crap and lol, ice age followed by floods would definately be a big change completely showing evolution to be false, so please dont bring up carbon dating or evolution because when you get down to it scientifically creationism is more provable thne evolution and cabon dating is downright stupid. Look into history folks all the info is there, jesus was a real guy and whether your a christian or not you cannot dispute that
December 15th, 2005 at 8:13 am
Actually, the speed of light isn’t slowing down, the speed of light is a constant in a vacuum. The speed decays when it travels through other mediums. Another factor is the rate of Universal Expansion.
People often forget constants and relativity when explaining these things.
My opinion, Jesus existed most likely, more than one religion believes he existed. Did he have God-like powers? my opinion no. Life is life, live it how you want. Only you can forge your own life.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:18 am
Wow I can’t even believe you’re serious when you say the bullshit you just typed. There is more evidence for creationism? Are you fucking kidding? There is NO evidence for creationism and there is plenty of evidence for evolution. You claim there to be evidence for creationism.. give me ONE example. The bible is not “evidence” it’s a random book writen by more than one author and is a combined book full of stories.
I assume you’re one of those guy’s who believes noah built a boat too and floated with 10 billion species of animals and properly placed all the animals back into their normal environments like the marsupials back to Australia and all the aligators and w/n back to where they need to be? And that moses led a couple hundred prisoners accross the Red Sea and parted the water? You wanna talk about theories… how about any theory of physics - which would prove you can’t just make water move out of the way. Shit, it doesn’t even have to be a theory - GRAVITY wouldn’t allow that dipshit. All I’m saying is, we can see that religion is full of bullshit and so is creationism ( a product of religion)
Evolution on the other had.. there is actual physical evidence. Take for example Darwin and his finches. Archaeological evidence of evolved skulls from different species from monkeys to birds to aligators etc etc. You’re an idiot Michael, truly.. and idiot.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:40 am
Darwin admitted before he died that it was all bullshit. In fact he plagurized all his ideas from his grandfather, darwin did not even have a scientific degree but one in theology, and your wrong about the speed of light. look it up, its gotten slower since the 80’s.
Evolution is the most improvable theory ever created. Scientists deem somthing as impossiple if the likelyhood of it being possiple is between 10 - .00000007 % of it being possiple. The liklihood of evolution being possiple is 10 - . 119,000 zeros 1, so decimal followed by 119,000 zeros and then the one. The idea behind evolution is stupid. Science shows you cannot create or destroy matter, yet you can only go back so far with evolution before there is no explanation how matter was created, whereas with creationism there is the idea of a god who created it all. Some people believe that God created evolution which is them trying to make more sense of evolution because they have realized its bullshit.
And yes I do believe in noahs ark. In fact they found a boat under 10 feet of ice in the mountains of mount aareat. The pictures were not realesed to the public of course. And I am sorry but there are not billions of species of animals who live on land and cannot survive in water. And the evidence of a world wide flood is overwelming, so im sorry but its entirely possiple, espeically you know, with a boat in the mountains under 10 feet of ice….with specific types of gases that only show up from feces and tar and crap like that being together for so long.
They found out that one of the skulls was partly from a donkey. so thats not proof. And if you have ever taken the time to read “the origin of species” you will read that he trys to say that we could have come from bananas based upon the evolutional theory.
You are right religion is bullshit. Christianity is not a religion however, and it was never meant to be. Christianity at its core is a belief and a relationship, man has turned it into a religion and in the process killed hundreds of thousands of people.
When you get down to it evolution is improvable therefore to believe it is correct you have to have some sort of faith in it. Making it essentially not a science but faith in a scientific idea. So what makes your improvable belief better then mine? At least mine is interesting.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:19 am
I will have to disagree that your “belief”, based on absolute bullshit, is more interesting. It’s condecending and makes you look stupid. Noah’s ark? C’mon you can’t honestly believe that. Think about it, how big is that boat? Yea right.
Not to mention, there is, infact, evidence of evolution. And where do you conjure up this bullshit that darwin is just some liar who falsified all his records? What reason would a THEOLOGIST, as you pointed out, have to attempt to disprove religion.
Not to mention, you so boldly quote physics and say we know matter cannot be created or destroyed yet in the very next sentence you claim god created matter. You’re not allowed to say that, its fucking ratarded.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:26 am
just my two cents..jesus did have a beard. well i believe he did anyways, its in Docterine and Covenants which has been combined with the Book of mormon.
.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:34 am
Lmao you dont listen at all do you. If you knew anything about darwin you would know that he was not smart enough to be an actual scientist, his father became angry and enrolled him into a siminary basically where he recieved a degree in theology. He plagurized his grandfathers ideas and came up with the theory of evolution, if you knew anything you would realize that before he died he became a christian and said that everything he said was bullcrap. and I do boldly claim physics and if you had half a brain you would have understand what I meant. NOTHING besides a GOD can create or destroy matter, which limits evolution, because you can only go back so far before the matter had to be created to evolve. Please dont even try to fight this with me, evolution is so incredibly unprovable I cant believe people are dumb enough to believe in it, at least parts of the bible are proovable.
I already mentioned how they found the boat
another example, the ground where sodom and gomora are at is completely charred, the rock itself, in the bible god rained fire and brimstone upon those cities
So far you have talked about skulls that have been shown to not be real and carbon dating which is so incredibly false its sad that people think its real. You remind me of poeple who seem to think seperation of church in state is in the constitution.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:19 pm
Ok Michael. First of all, type slower, your spelling mistakes make people take you less seriously. Secondly, where did you get this calculation for the probability of evolution being true? I’d like to see some sort of method of attaining this.
Thirdly, you state that matter cannot be created or destroyed, this is true. However this does not mean that God made it. Why can’t you have an infinite stretch of time into the past? Just because of our current conceptions of time? If you can believe in an almighty being then that shouldn’t be too much of a stretch.
Also it’s hard to take the bible seriously when so much of it is full of crap that has been disproven. Like how old the world is. Or let’s not go into things that can be proven or disproven. How about how the bible says that it’s ok to buy slaves as long as they’re not from your own country. Or how burning a bull on the altar as a sacrifice creates a pleasing odour for the lord? We never do that anymore…
“I wouldnt believe in evolution, its the most unstable theory and in order for it to be real everything would have stayed the same wheras the law of thermal dynamics states that everything decays” you’re wrong, if you don’t believe in evolution, THAT’S when everything needs to stay the same. We can see the effects of evolution in Humans on a generational basis, for example, the average height has been slowly increasing for hundreds of years.
Also, in THERMODYNAMICS they say that everything tends towards entropy and chaos IN A CLOSED SYSTEM! The earth is not a closed system, there are forces acting upon it from the solar system and things are introduced to the system by meteors and whatnot.
Also the words Scientifically and Creationism put together makes an oxymoron. Creationism isn’t a science, a science is based on testing theories in an attempt to prove them FALSE. Once you prove something false once then it’s false forever, not the same about testing for truth. HOWEVER, Creationism asserts it’s own truth within the argument, making it impossible to test for Falsity, therefore not an acceptable scientific argument.
Also, the reason he said billions is to use a little hyperbole, (to exaggerate) there are not billions this is true, but there are more than he could have fit onto a WOODEN boat. There are more than we can fit onto the most advanced boat built with the technology we have today. I still can’t get over the fact that Noah was nice enough to travel to every single continent, and drop off all the right animals there too.
“evolution is so incredibly unprovable I cant believe people are dumb enough to believe in it,” - people have believed in many things that have lots of evidence for them and then are eventually proven wrong. Like a geocentric view of the solar system. Like I said before you can NEVER truly prove something 100% right, you can only TRY to prove it wrong. So far what you have said hasn’t proven it wrong. So they found a boat under ice, guess what, I’m sure Noah wasn’t the only person to have a big boat. (P.S. if it was Noah’s it’d probably be under more than 10 ft of ice.)
December 15th, 2005 at 12:30 pm
^^^^ A sensible person, finally. Thank you bud.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:40 pm
I’d like to point out that the verse used is from the Old Testament and therefore cannot have an account of Jesus. I’d like to think Jesus had a beard, but it he didn’t, then it’s no skin off my back.
It’s also no matter to me about the debate about creation vs. evolution. Does it matter if God created by snapping his fingers and everything suddenly appeared, or if He created using the process of evolution? In the long run, it doesn’t affect my salvation.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:41 pm
lol, all he did was use generalizing terms without actually saying anything. He did not say anything in the bible that has been unproven he only stated things he did not agree with. And those were the laws for the jews that they were to follow. The bible does not say how old the earth is, it simply states how long man has been around. Between verses 1 and 2 of the genesis there is a gap, hense the gap theory. Verse 1 says at some time God created the heavens and the earth. This means he did it all at once. Then in verse 2 it says, The earth was formless in empty. The hebrew term there for was means becomes. So there was a gap, so your a little wrong there. the bible in no way states how old the earth is. For all I know it could be billions of years or 6 thousand.
The burnt sacrifices were a symbolism. It was used to show that the jews were sorry for sinning and were willing to give up something of there own to cover up their sins. Once jesus came he got rid of this by becoming the sacrifice and not covering up the sins but washing them all away.
I will get you the credit to my post about the probability of evolution.
The height thing is micro evolution or adaption, macro evolution is an entirely different thing.
I know what I said was an oxymoron which is why I said it. I said that creationism is more scientific then evolution, something millions seem to think is a true science.
I know he was exaggerating I was being a smart ass.
and as for trying to proove it wrong, I think I already covered that when I said the only way to believe something as improvable as evolution is to have faith in it, hence making it a scientific belief.
Also I mentioned carbon dating and what not, its completely and totally unreliable. If the earth was that old the continents would have eroded themselves away over 60 times. Whereas evolution states it was one big continent that has slowly drifted outward. and blablabla
And you still havent tried to disproove that darwin did not say its a bunch of bull before he died.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:46 pm
To the people that think Jesus had a beard:
Do you think it was all scruffy or soft?
December 15th, 2005 at 2:00 pm
I think he had a beard, most people back then did.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:26 pm
The bible does say how old the earth is. There’s a famous theologian (St. Augustine, I dunno correct me if I’m wrong) who uses the bible to determine the “exact” minute that the world was created. In the bible when it talks about God creating the world, it says he does so in 6 days and then rests the 7th. The Hebrew word for day that is used in the original writing of the old testament here means exactly one day, so it’s not some metaphorical thing that maybe a day to God is like a million to us.
You can determine how old the earth is without carbon dating, carbon dating only works on things that used to be alive. You can analyze rock samples without carbon dating.
Also a side note: anything in the Old Testament does apply even after Jesus has come because he states several times (or I guess is quoted) saying something along the lines of all the old laws still stand, and we should all abide by them.
Now, I am gonna say that I actually don’t really have a problem with religion, I just like to debate stuff like this (I’m a philosophy student). I find religion to be perfectly legitimate on the fact that it can change people’s lives for the better (I personally know a few people who would probably be dead if they hadn’t “found Jesus”). I just don’t like it when people quote obscure sections of the bible to condemn things like Homosexuality or to support war and then completely ignore what they choose.
P.S. I’m sorry if I offended anyone, but you gotta admit, this type of thing is fun
December 15th, 2005 at 3:47 pm
If an almighty god did create us, we wouldn’t be so cynical in nature. If evolution is false, selective breeding still applies. Were we nurtured through the times and taught what’s right and wrong by God? Nope. I wish God did create us. We’d be so happy living together, like how we breeded cows to just indulge in eating and being forever happy, until they get slaughtered or what not. haha just an alternate perspective.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:56 pm
1. “And you still havent tried to disproove that darwin did not say its a bunch of bull before he died.”
Fair enough, but Galileo also recanted on his position that the Earth moved around the sun and from your previous post I can see that you don’t believe that the Earth is the centre of the universe.
The theory of evolution has also ‘evolved’ since Darwin’s time. So saying that people are stupid because they believe in Darwin’s idea of evolution when they believe in the Modern idea of evolution is ignorant.
You also seem to be using the term ‘evolution’ to describe every scientific theory that describes the past. For example:
“If the earth was that old the continents would have eroded themselves away over 60 times. Whereas evolution states it was one big continent that has slowly drifted outward. and blablabla”
The theory of evolution describes the changes that groups of organisms (ie animals, plants, bacteria etc.) undergo with the passage of time, mainly as a result of natural selection, so that descendants differ morphologically (look different) and physiologically (their bodies work different) from their ancestors.
The theory that I believe you are referring to is the theory of plate tectonics. The fact that you don’t even know the names of the theories you are quoting leads me the believe (and I have faith in this) that you don’t aqequately know the theories you are quoting. Another example of this would be your statement about the continents eroding away 60 times over. Wow, I can’t believe all those scientists missed that one. I bet they’re embarassed. Oh wait no they’re not, because you erosion theory is explained by the fact that plates of the earths crust push against each other creating zones which increase in height over time (like the Himalaya’s or the Andes). Please actually read a book about the theory of plate tectonics (which I believe is taught to primary (elementary) school students) before you make a comment about it.
2. “Lmao you dont listen at all do you. If you knew anything about darwin you would know that he was not smart enough to be an actual scientist, his father became angry and enrolled him into a siminary basically where he recieved a degree in theology. He plagurized his grandfathers ideas and came up with the theory of evolution”
I’m not sure about this one, I mean he could have done what you said but I have not seen any evidence to confirm or deny this statement. However, discrediting Darwin does not discredit evolution. For this argument to be valid you must be able to say that every scientist that has ever believed in the theory of evolution was as stupid as you claim Darwin to be. Can you say that?
3. “So far you have talked about skulls that have been shown to not be real and carbon dating which is so incredibly false its sad that people think its real. You remind me of poeple who seem to think seperation of church in state is in the constitution.”
When you say that carbon dating gives false readings and only quote ONE example. You also ignore the MILLIONS of times that it gives correct readings. Your ONE example isn’t enough to say that the entire proceedure is incorrect.
In effect what you are saying is that when your car doesn’t start, it means that the teams of engineers that built and designed your car we’re in fact wrong and the internal combustion engine doesn’t actually allow people to travel at fast speeds.
I’m out of time, I wish I could stay and debunk all your crazy thoeries, but alas I can’t
Farewell
December 15th, 2005 at 4:17 pm
i just want to say to the guys who claims that the bible is not true and full of crap, i pity you guys. just wait when world ends and lets see whose right about this… and how the hell did this shit end up in evolution! duh!!!
and if you guys believe in evolution then you are all monkeys! hahaha.
ciao! peace out!
December 15th, 2005 at 9:09 pm
you make me ashamed to be christian!!!
look, we’re taking theology now, and we just took this up a few days ago…
darwin was indeed taking up theology, he was studying to ba a minister or something. but then he accompanied his friend, a captain, and they ended up in the galapagos. and thats where he saw finches and tortoise from different islands slightly varied (microevolution?), hence leading to the whole evolution theory. so you saying darwin studied theology doesn’t proove anything about him not being a scientist.
microevolution… sure sure… look at this simple train of thought. there is microevolution… the earth is years and years and years old (i believe you agree to this)… so all those years, there could have plenty plenty of microevolution… micro + micro + micro blablabla would eventually make up something macro… macroevolution.
you are such a retard. and by the way the theory you’re saying ’bout it is impossible to create and destroy matter… i think that’s something they call as law of conservation of matter… it doesn’ have anything to deal with evolution! lets say there is earth… the animals evolve… they change shape and color and such… there… now where the hell did matter was created and disappear in that picture?
and by the way… as of now i dont believe in creation already. god wouldnt have created a shame like you. something like you could only have evolved from monkeys
December 15th, 2005 at 9:29 pm
you dont understand anything do you. If matter cannot be created or destroyed then where in the world did it come from in the first place. Evolution in no way explains this. In evolution there must have been matter in the beginning for it to evolve. But if the law of conservation says that you cannot create or destroy matter then where did the first matter come from?
Also, im sorry but you are wrong, the bible in no way says how old the earth is and I think its funny that that guy seems to think he calculated it down to the minute because the bible says nothing lik that. as I stated before the bible says how old man is, not the earth.
and your little theory of micro + micro + micro + micro = Macro, that is just….stupid. Microevolution is adaption. Macro evolution is taking one organism, and changing it into an entirely different one. Micro = real. Macro = stupid
Many Published evolutionists did not wish their work to be published once they realized it was hogwash. However, it was still published.
Galileo was tortured and forced to take back his ideas about the earth moving around the sun by the stupid roman catholic church.
Name a time it has ever given a correct reading please. Everytime they use it to get the age of the earth it gives a different answer. Along with many other such things. So please, show me evidence its right because frankly, anyone with half a brain knows its hogwash.
I was using the plate tetonics theory in relation to how old evolutionists seem to think the earth is. Please read before you strike out at something I say.
I know what evolution is I have studied it quite a bit actually. A friend of mine actually wrote a book disprooving evolution, he has not published it yet however.
I still have no clue why people seem to still believe in evolution so fervantly, even when they are shown so many facts that its wrong….reminds me of a religion….
December 15th, 2005 at 11:15 pm
You still haven’t come up with any of these “fact” you just say that they exist.
Also Evolutionary theorists aren’t concerned with how matter was created in the first place. Because clearly life wasn’t created at the exact moment everything else was. Evolution just deals with how organisms change over long periods of time.
“Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath. . . . in it thou shalt not work… For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth… and rested the seventh dayâ€? (Exodus 20:9-11).
On the sixth day God created Adam right? So you’re saying that the bible says how long humans have been around. This means that God created the world 5 days before that. So the earth is 5 days older than Adam.
Combine this with my post about about how the Hebrew word for day used in the old testament actually means “a 24 hour period” not some metaphor for a thousand years or whatnot.
P.S. I found out that guys name, he was an Archbishop, James Usher (or Ussher), he figured out that creation happened in 4004 BCE. He was an Archbishop and used his interpretation of Biblical events and genealogies to figure it out.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
You all are confused and are leading a pointless debate. Entertainment factor…I would rate it a 4.5!
The same reasons we are hard headed to not believe in evolving from a monkey or a few cells joined in a cess pool to the reasons some don’t believe in the bible being the authority of God. We are social creatures and have a freewill that was screwed up by Eve and Adams lack of manhood to control his wife! So we all suffer with the knowledge of Good and Evil and sad to say, many of us choose to not believe in God. Sad…my heart cries out for you and much of family and friends that are just as lost.
But Michael…a man to be so knowledgable about facts of creation, you lack a humble heart. Check it at the door….the people that don’t understand the Truth will not ever understand it by an example of bashing and ridiculing. Rethink your voice and motives to display your vast knowledge of creation vs evolving….and focus on the real goal. You stated it once before…relationships.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:28 pm
I think all scientific evidence clearly points to Jesus having a handlebar moustache.
December 16th, 2005 at 12:08 am
Jesus was a Nazarene, which meant he was not allowed to shave, trim or cut his hair or beard.
December 16th, 2005 at 12:58 am
Just let michael spout whatever bs he wishes, because more then likely he is the type to twist everything in his favor to support his bible loving ass. All scientific evidence up to now points to evolution not creationism, so until there is anything that says otherwise majority of the people will accept evolution as fact and creationism as theory. To all the bible huggers, wish they would all stop trying to push their beliefs on others ie; forcing creationism to be taught in PUBLIC schools :p. Not everyone is a believer (obviously i’m not) no need to try to push your beliefs on others (missionary’s come to mind here trying to uproot religions that have been in country’s history for thousands of years)
December 16th, 2005 at 1:23 am
Jesus was black, and this MIchael guys a moron, try reading before you open your mouth. Everything your preist says is not the truth… fucking religous people crack me up….the bible was written by MAN on GOD
http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony_pictures/da_vinci_code/large.html
December 16th, 2005 at 2:30 am
Well, I read about half the comments but was just so dissapointed with one part of the original post I figured I’d comment and be done with it.
[Deeo breath…] Isaiah is in the Hebrew Bible (the Jews’ Bible, one of their primary texts), which Christians call the “Old Testament.”
Now, Christians also quote Isaiah’s prophetic comments as proof that their Jesus was the messiah Isaiah was talking about, so if they quote some you’d think it would be consistent that they take all of Isaiah. However, not only do I doubt that you were arguing this point, I doubt you even realized the distinction between the texts. Furthermore, while I’m no expert on Isaiah, in context I would guess that the text of Isaiah 50 is a Jewish writing about the Father/YHWH deity, not the coming messiah deity…but perhaps I’ve missed something.
The fact that Christians include some (Catholics include a little more than Protestants) of these Jewish texts is irrelevant — because again, this is a Jewish text, NOT a Christian one.
Finally, I’m not a Christian, and I’d imagine neither are you, but if one’s religion is the religion s/he knows most about, then you are indeed a Christian (and a standard ignorant one at that)!
I’ve never been to your site before, but I’d hate to think that people come here expecting definitive answers on miscellaneous questions…people should never rely on one source for everything.
Anyway… I’d imagine Jesus did indeed have a beard…not that it matters to me!
December 16th, 2005 at 2:54 am
As I have stated before the bible does not say how old the earth is. Verse one of the bible says God created the heavens and the earth. The way it is stated in hebrew means he did it all at once. In verse 2 it says now the earth WAS formless and empty. The way moses rights in the hebrew and the way he uses the word was means “became”. Therefore there was some form of gap between verse 1 and 2. it could have been seconds and it could have been millions of years. We dont know.
I do not see why people hold christians upon a higher pedestal then other people. Sure alot of christians hold them selves up on one but a large part of the problem is that other people hold us on one. If that made any sense, Either way. I am a human just like all of you, I make mistakes and in the heat of a debate I may bash and do things like that, and just because im a christian that shouldnt mean im a worse person then anyone else. I dont hold myself on a pedestal and I never plan to. I know im a crappy person just like all of you
. Eitherway, I didnt mean to be a douche in this debate sometimes I just am.
AND that goes the same for you, YOu have not shown any facts trying to prove evolution you are just the same as I am. The only difference is that evolution is a science and as a science you should be able to proove it. Christianity is a belief and as a belief you dont have to proove it you just have to believe, thats the difference. I do not need facts to proove christianity I only have to believe. Evolution however, I feel should be prooven, so far all I have seen is blind belief in an unprovable theory….with unprovable facts
December 16th, 2005 at 8:49 am
so who created god?
December 16th, 2005 at 8:50 am
yea i agree with what the person who posted above with the name “To end the confusion…” said, MIchael, first off, gotta stop being disrespectful to people regardless of their beliefs, whether it’s “religious” belief, “scientific” belief, or whatever. When you say something like this, and you disrespect someone, YOU are making BOTH you and the other person bring about feelings that are…”unholy” (lol i dont know), your’s being arrogance and most likely the other person’s being spite, and guess who’s trap your falling into MIchael…dun dun dun, haha.
Okay now i’ll be serious. I feel that if even a fellow christian believed in something (something not related to christianity, for example, like…i dont know, but yu get the point) differently from you, you’d ridicule and talk condescendingly towards that person too when you try to talk about your belief on that subject, all because that person had a different belief from you.
you think stating or saying something in such a disdainful tone gonna help in explaining your belief and make them understand and respect yours? (or maybe its because supporters of evolution disrespected you or your beliefs so you feel you have to do the same to all of them, but that’s a different subject altogether) And i’m not even saying this in a condescending way, so dont take it that way, after all, my point was about not being condescending in the first place so why would i do that to you.
And my point doesn’t apply to jus you or to all christians or whatever, it applies to everyone, atheist, buddhist, whatever; disrespect is no good to anyone, why? cuz anyone regardless dont like being disrespected. now, there be misunderstanding or can someone accidentally mis-take a statement as disrespectful, yes, and it happens often, which is why its important to know if someone wus being disrespectful towards you or if you just mistook it as one. if someone is being disrespectful to you, you should say something and bring it out in the open so it can be resolved.
I know this has nothing to do with what you people were arguing about, but knowing this is not only important here, but, its something that is important to know in your everyday lives. Before i go, i’d just wanna quickly say that disrespecting someone is not the same as disciplining them, as some mistake one for the other at times.
i’m not trying to be some all-knowing guru, so dont try to make me out to be one or misunderstand me, i’m jus sayin this so we can avoid problems and improve communication.
December 16th, 2005 at 8:54 am
oh and i dont think its about whether or not he had one, but how long wus it? wus it jus a 5 o’ clock shadow or wus he able to sweep and clean the floor with it?
December 16th, 2005 at 9:12 am
The majority of the contents of Darwin’s Origin of the Species focusses on very minor animal adaptations such as longer beaks and claws etc. It provides much evidence for this. But very rarely does it even mention the process of completely changing from one species to another, and when it does it provides absolutely no real scientific evidence. Just thought I would put that out there.
December 16th, 2005 at 10:16 am
“For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth”
Seems pretty clear to me that there’s not much of a gap here.
I don’t have exact references to prove evolution because I am not actually in anthropology or evolutionary science. But here’s one thing I do know. The fossil record. It shows fossils of skeletal structures, changing over time, and you can see the progression completely from one species to another. I’m sure you can find millions of articles with much more specific information than I have here, although you’ll probably dismiss it…
December 16th, 2005 at 10:45 am
my tone wasnt meant to offend anyone at all, I am a very sarcastic person by nature and if you knew me in real life you would know im probably the least mean person you would know. lol. I am a republican living in seattle, I cannot afford to be distainful to those who I dissagree with or I would have no friends.
as for the earth thing I have explained this three times so far and I really want you to try to learn this time. Between verses 1 and 2 there is a gap, there are 2 creations in genesis. The first, then a gap, then the second, where it explains all of the days. Please, I dont want to explain it again so ill just bring out the verses.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(here he created the earth and everything on it)
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
the word was after “now the earth” means became in the hebrew text. Therefore there was some sort of gap between the earth being created and then the earth becoming formless and empty.
Once again, the bible does not say how old the earth is simply how old man and the current “version” of earth I guess you could say. I do not know how long the gap was, it could have been seconds, it could have been millions of years. I wont know till I die.
December 16th, 2005 at 11:21 am
GOD! Where did he come from!?
December 16th, 2005 at 11:31 pm
I bet Jesus had a nice bushy beard, like a terrorist beard. lol
December 19th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
Well seeing that the method of a clean shave in that time was scraping your face with a pummice stone, i think i would have prefered crucifiction 2…
he had a beard ok.. it matters not.. ok…
He was as much the son of god as all of us… ok…
He was a very very naughty boy… ok…
May the gods (yes plural) bless his cotton sox!!!
December 19th, 2005 at 10:40 pm
I think he had a beard. But then again, I’m not sure. But one thing I know is that the didn’t have the Schick double edged blades or Gillettes aloe vera for soft and sensitive skin.
So even if he was shaving, I doubt that his facial skin resemled what you’d expect to see in GQ magazine
Mike
December 27th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
Wow michael, nothing you have said yet is even a shred true. I’m actually an evolutionary biologist so I think I have spent enough time learning and pondering on the subject of evolution.
First off you said that Darwin wasn’t smart enough to be a scientist. Last I checked, there was no prerequisite IQ. Leo DaVinci wasn’t educated very well either, but he is considered to be one of the greatest minds ever.
You also said that for evolution to be true, everything would have to stay the same. That is straight up false, in fact I think you made that up because it is baseless. In fact, evolution is supported by a changing climate of the earth because species had to adapt in order to survive, and those who adapted better/quicker did survive (survival of the fittest ring a bell). This also explains the organisms that are too complex to have evolved that way such as the eyeball which required 11 exact mutations in order to work as it does, but with millions of years to develop, this is not only statistically possible, but probable when combined with survival of the fittest. I’l continue my ramblings tomorrow morning, hopefully by then you won’t pollute this post with too much more crap for me to sort out.
December 27th, 2005 at 3:59 pm
Oh, I forgot. Darwin did not denounce the theory of evolution on his death bed, in fact he reinforced it further. That was just a myth started by the Catholic church, use google to look it up.
December 27th, 2005 at 4:05 pm
Wait, forgot again. You said that “thermal dynamics” (its really thermodynamics) said that matter cannot be created or destroyed; its actually energy that cannot be created or destroyed, matter is pretty much free to come and go.
Also, how do you react when you hear that humans share 98% of their DNA with chimpanzees?
April 19th, 2006 at 4:25 am
Again, speed of light, constant through a vacuum, you’re missing the fact the rate of expansion of the universe again. The rate of speed from a distant star can become slower, but the actual rate of speed of light in a vacuum is a constant.
Second, worldwide flood, no proof. Very large flood on the european/middle eastern continent, there is some evidence. But not enough to forge a boat the size of a small country. Plus, the shear number of animal that would have had to be on there is just plain ridiculous to even speculate as possible. Plus, in order to survive without severe inbreeding issues you would need more than 1 pair of each. Oh my, theres some evidence of evolution there. Inbreeding causes problems. Hell, even the bible says that.
May 15th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
Evolution is extremely provable, you are stupid not to agree. as for your ‘macroevolution’ bs, you are basically stating lamarkism and this is crap…
plus i like that point ‘ so who created god?’ . i think this guys onto something here.
And about the noahs arc stuff… somewhere near where i live (Wiltshire in England) they found remains of a boat that is proven to be 1000’s of years old… is that noahs arc? , i leave that for you to decide…
Also on this noah arc thing it states in the bible that noah the fine chap that he was, went all around the world and finding species that are undiscovered and got 2 of each of the unclean animals (not farm animals) and 8 pars of clean animals (farm animals) and take them back to his boat. Ok how did he know which animals he could eat and which he couldnt?
Also you said that some parts of the bible have been proven and are beleivable… ye the ones that say that the people could walk… thats about the only true thing in the book.
as for jesus walking on water… his mum was probably just exagertating… he was probably really good on ice skates.
Jesus turning water into wine??? that looks good, jesus the alcoholic.. pff wats rong weith water
And on his beard, i would like to think jesus was sporting a hitler style beard, as it would be really ironic.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:09 am
Just to clear things up a tiny bit:
Most Jewish texts are now irrelevant as Jesus very clearly stated that the old way of things has passed and that he is the new covenant.
“Origin of Species” by Darwin provides very little actual evidence for macroevolution and in fact hardly even mentions it.
If an all powerful God does exist, he created the laws of physics themselves, and therefore is not subject to them. He requires no creator (or “cause”) and can easily create things like matter and energy.
Christianity (or all forms of religion for that matter) is indeed incapable of being proven scientifically. But one would be a fool to say that Evolution has been proven beyond reasonable doubt. One must keep in mind that previous scientific theories are being disproven all the time by new advancements and that Christianity is supposed to be largely faith based anyway.
2000 years ago a man named Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and was crucified until death for his beliefs. That much is historical fact. They teach it in the same public schools that teach evolution.
And to Michael and any other Christians debating on here:
Try to remember that the Bible states that some people are simply incapable of ever understanding God’s divine truth, so trying to convince them is futile.
Yes, I am a Christian. Dont worry though, I’m not on a crusade to try to convert anyone or debunk any opposing theories. I just wanted to inform some misinformed people. You guys can come to the truth on your own or you can believe whatever you want. It really won’t make me lose any sleep.
May 21st, 2006 at 1:23 am
But didn’t Jesus also say that the old laws still applied. He never wanted Christianity to start, he wanted to “upgrade” the Jews.
I really enjoy reading that BS about “god is all powerful, the laws of physics don’t apply to him.” Well that certainly is testable. And just because they teach something in public schools does not make it fact. They used to think that the world was flat, that the earth was the center of the universe, etc. (all pushed by the Christians). In fact, Ptolemy knew and taught that the Earth was round in 150AD, hundreds of years before Columbus. He even predicted the existence and approximate location of North and South America based on the imbalance of land on the globe. There was a regression of knowledge during the Middle Ages because of the influence of religion. In 1410, Ptolemy’s book on geography made it back to europe and then was one of the first books printed on the Guttenberg press (after the Bible). Columbus read his book which led to the great voyage of 1492. The rest really is history. Throughout the years religion has been a huge force against knowledge, why would they stop now? There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about evolution. Also, to scientists, the word theory means a lot more than just a possible idea. A real theory has much evidence for it, no real evidence against it, is generally accepted as fact in the scientific community, and has just yet to be 100% verified. Theory, to those pushing the “theory of creationism,” only means an idea regardless of how substantiated it is (and the Bible doesn’t count as substantiation).
May 21st, 2006 at 10:49 pm
Yall are still goin on about this? Whats it been 6 months now? Ok, to End any and every arguement I have or had, here is my “closing statement”. It is impossiple to proove evolution. It is impossiple to proove Creationism. The difference is, one is meant to be a science, science being the proven laws of nature by which humans must abide. The other is a belief, a belief and a relationship built upon faith. Now, for all of you who think creationism is stupid and blablabla, let me ask you this question. Would you rather blindly believe an unprovable scientific theory? Or something that doesnt have to be proven, because its built upon faith? Who is the real idiot? Now, I know im gonna get alot of flaming as I have gotten in the past, and it will probably give me a nice laugh, so I want yall to know, give me your worst, because honestly I could care less. If yall dont want to believe in christianity then the problem is yours, not mine. If you want to believe a theory that has less proof going for it then me saying im fabio, then thats fine too. So have fun flaming me yalls, and have a good one
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:05 am
How can you possibly say that there is less proof for evolution? How about the fact that of all 480,000 qualified biological scientists in the US (this includes biology, anthropology, etc) all but 700 said that evolution is correct (according to a 1987 Newsweek). I’m not a statistician or anything, but that seems like a pretty damning argument right there. Not to mention that if you believe in survival of the fittest, then evolution falls right in place.
Michael, I would like to ask what level of scientific education you reached. I’m guessing its no higher than high school chemistry. I, on the other hand, have taken years of college science in biology, human physiology, chemistry, physics, etc. There is proof for evolution, it just isn’t enough to say with 100% certainty that it is fact. We are at about 99.999999% right now. You just can’t back away from the fact that we share 97% of our genes with chimpanzees. That every mammal (including dolphins) shares the same wrist bones, though each species has a wrist that is more suited to their respective environments. A dolphin has a broad, thin carpal bone which is used as its front fin. Your carpal bone is small and barely makes up anything in your wrist.
Honestly I get a kick out of all these people who say shit like, “the development of the eye needed 11 specific mutations, that is not statistically plausible.” Yeah it is, because the aminals with that mutation had a distinct advantage over other species without it, so they were more capable of continuing their species.
Personally, I find it more ridiculus that you follow a belief that has NO substantiation (you sort of admit this), rather than a concept that has at least some. With that logic I could tell you that I’m fabio and you would believe that over 479,300 people who tell you that they are pretty sure that I’m not. I guess that settles it, I’m fabio!
You know, if God is real, what is the harm in trying to prove evolution? All of us evolutionists go to hell, and you do your thing. But what if God isn’t real? We found it out and you are left with a wasted life filled with bogus hope. Based on those outcomes I can see why you don’t want evolution to be true. At least I KNOW that my life wasn’t wasted, hell would be more fun anyway.
In reality, I think that religion teaches some good life lessons. But most believers take it farther than I think it was intended. Who cares if Jesus was real, the character of Jesus was a great guy with great morals, regardless of whether he was real or just made up.
July 24th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
I am not a christian, but I will say Michael is absolutely correct. The carbon dating on the Shroud of Turin was dated back to the 1500’s because the facility holding it caught on fire. It was ALSO FUCKING PROVEN that there is NO GOD DAMN WAY to prove the the dating of the Shroud. The only time, again, THE ONLY FUCKING TIME it was ever tested was when there was actually T-E-C-H-N-O-L-O-G-Y to test it you pieces of shit. You who blatantly blasted Michael with your unwarranted arrogance and stupidity must be fucking still licking your fat whore of a mother’s tits you’re so childish.
“Michael, I would like to ask what level of scientific education you reached. I’m guessing its no higher than high school chemistry. I, on the other hand, have taken years of college science in biology, human physiology, chemistry, physics, etc. There is proof for evolution, it just isn’t enough to say with 100% certainty that it is fact. We are at about 99.999999% right now. You just can’t back away from the fact that we share 97% of our genes with chimpanzees.”
“There is proof for evolution, it just isn’t enough to say with 100% certainty that it is fact. We are at about 99.999999% right now. You just can’t back away from the fact that we share 97% of our genes with chimpanzees.”
Look at yourself, ask yourself a question, “Why do I make up shit I don’t really know a fucking thing about?” If you really had that knowledge you so claim to possess you would have some sort of cognitive understanding that there is no way that can be proven. Go read a book named “The Elegant Universe”, and if you get past Ch. 4 then you’ll see just how idiotic you look when you try to make up shit that you think others are too stupid to know the difference about. There are scholars both religious and non-religious that disagree about this very topic, but none of them have ANY kind of rationale that you just spewed from your disgusting assto make you say, “99.9999999% sure” for evolution, take a biology class at the collegiate level and you’ll understand that there is no way to make that calculation, in ANY faccet of the imagination. I highly doubt any of you are scholars, so how about you SHUT THE FUCK UP AND EDUCATE YOURSELVES. Bastards like you are what make people wonder if abortion should be legal or not. Fucking sac of shit.
July 30th, 2006 at 8:03 am
Yeah, I’m the retarded one. Why don’t you go ask a biology teacher if evolution is true or not, because right now the field of biology is taught on the presumtion that it is real. They no longer have discussions about the validity of evolution, it is generally accepted as fact.
“We are at about 99.9999999% right now,” I admit, I made that up. In my defense though I was using a literary tool called hyperbole (exaggeration to the lay man). Basically I was saying that the scientific community have already moved past the evolution debate. It isn’t even a debate to them. And yes, it can never be proven completely true, but we can show with enough certainty that it is extremely unlikey that its not true.
It pretty much sounds to me like you are just a tool who is upset that his beliefs are being shat upon by reality. Get a life, and a bio book.
October 27th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
All this bickering is ludicrous. All you people are merely lobbing darts in Beelzebub’s parlor. It tis written that Satan wore his beard thick and gnarly, and to presume Jesus wore his beard in any different manner or question such the report as is, uncloaks the veil of your heart revealing the wretchedly wicked person you truly are and thou shalt live a thousand lives in servitude never to be lifted from beyond ones knees. Now go and wipe the curdled smegma from about thine chin and share repent among your fellow man.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
To the response of Andy: Jesus wasn’t real so he can’t have had a beard.
Roman, Greek, and Egyptian history account for the life and in Roman records the death of a man called Jesus.
Why are so many people angered by Christianity vs. other wrold religions? Why celebrate Christmas - buying gifts, taking off work, etc… if you do not believe in the Son of God? Why all the aggression?
There are people that claim to be Christians that do not live a Gospel focused - love one another to include the less fortunate - as taught by Jesus’ actions. These false witnesses do attempt to stain the faith as do many other fanatics that blown up buildings in the name of their religion.
Shroud or no shroud, does this prove Jesus’ existance? No. The Bible, Koran, tax records from Caesar, and 2000 year old documents do write about the profit Jesus who taught to many crowds of people.
Beard or no beard - I don’t know. I do believe Jesus was not white and either had full facial hair or none - not a stash or goatee.